April 10, 2013

Offside goals in Borussia Dortmund - Málaga CF

The performance of the Scottish refereeing team headed by Craig Thomson in yesterday's quaint tie between Borussia Dortmund and Málaga CF is currently subject to immense criticism also heated by an official complaint lodged by the Spanish side. 

Besides some errors typical of every referee performance, the assistant referees' performances were characterized by two crucial mistakes with a severe impact on the course and resulst of the entire match. Both AR1 Derek Rose as well as AR2 Alasdair Ross thus failed to disallow one goal of each team in the last minutes of play. These decisions should be exposed in the following to make them clearer despite the already led discussions in the comments underneath the respective thread.

After a simple turnover in the midfield, Spanish talent Isco passed the ball to Julio Baptista who appeared free in front of BVB goalkeeper Weidenfeller. A mixture of a pass and a shot was taken and Eliseu only had to slide the ball home. But exactly this player, Eliseu, was in an offside position (approximately 30-50 cm) missed by AR1 Derek Rose due to suboptimal positioning:

Derek Rose failed to gain an optimum position by 2,1 metres
Dortmund did not really recover from this (illegal) goal and they had to wait until the 90th minute, then, they finally scored the equalizing goal and took fresh heart from it. In the second/third minute of the additional time, Dortmund managed the miracle and turned the original defeat into a 3:2 win. But also here, the goal should not have counted. AR2 Alasdair Ross even missed two offside positions in this situation:

Schieber (the upper yellow player) was offside when #9 played the ball

Santana was positioned irregularly as well
While the first missed offside position may be accepted as a normal error of perception, the second one is tremendously grave: Ross surely was positioned half a metre away from the goalline and nonetheless failed to detect Santana's clear offside position. The goalkeeper (red kit) took the role of the 2nd last defender in that moment so that Santana's position became illegal. Even the second additional assistant referee Kevin Clancy could have noticed that, while it must be clear that it was the assistant referee's area of responsibility.
One may presume that Ross did not raise the flag either due to the dynamic pace and extra-ordinary nature of this situation or due to the fact that the crowd behind and besides him was heated in a way which produced a pressure he was unable to cope with by losing his mental alertness and concentration.

It does not justify anything, but in the end, it was kind of equal injustice football as a game can sometimes benefit from.

96 Comments:

  1. I think he wasn't mentally ready to make this decision at the last minute. After Thomson waived him for a play on minutes earlier, I saw his face on TV and he was completely out in terms of concentration.

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  2. Dispatched assistant so poorly Craig Thomson, and he should not drive or on CONFEDERATIO-CUP this year, or next year at the WORLD-CUP.

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  3. Anonymous11/4/13 02:03

    It looks as if the out reached hand of the goalkeeper is keeping Santana's right knee insides, but that just maybe due to the camera angle. - Josh R

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous11/4/13 02:04

      *onsides. - Josh

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11/4/13 22:21

      He would be offsides either way since there must be two defenders behind to count as onsides. One player was outside the field of play (past the goal line) which leads to an offside position by Santana.

      Delete
  4. That is a clear offside position. No need to go around the blocks to find an excuse. Just missed the offside. I don't think the assistant referee thought that his hands are keeping him onside, he just missed it!

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  5. Anonymous11/4/13 07:12

    Malaga cannot (and must not) pass to the semifinals in Europe Champions League.
    Football is business (not a sport anymore), and must run its normal path.
    We shouldn´t be so naive!
    UEFA people should be very happy, of course.
    You can see this comic ilustration and it explains everything, e.g.: http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x384/rubeus2003/uefa_mafia_comic_ENb_zps28552d8e.jpg

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  6. People so much like conspiracy theories in this world. What about the 2nd Malaga goal? It was also planned by the referees to bring more attention and justice to the game?
    God help us!!!

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous17/4/13 13:11

      This Scottish Assistant referees have to find nothing in the elite field

      Delete
  7. Anonymous11/4/13 09:39

    Málaga has not reason. Also was offside your second
    goal.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous11/4/13 09:40

    Very well yesterday Velasco and Kuipers.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Several remarks about the remaining referees and the semifinals.

    Brych: he is probably a candidate for CL final, and UEFA is waiting for the draws. If a German derby will come out, it will mean that at least a German team will be surely in CL final, for this reason he would be out. In this case, it's very likely that they are going to appoint him in the other CL semifinal, which will be surely El Clasico.

    Rizzoli: among the CL final candidates he is sure already until now that he can officiate in Wembley this year. We will see how UEFA will use him, I think that a EL semifinal would be a good test.

    Skomina: sure name for a semifinal, in my opinion, and having already officiated Borussia in his last match, he will be probably appointed in the other match (Barça - Bayern, Real Madrid - Bayern or Barça - Real).

    Webb: the same count as Skomina, since he got the first leg of Borussia in his last match. We should see him appointed for a semifinal.

    Proença: never got Barça in his whole international career, and I think that it's the right time now, just a problem. Some people are saying that Proença would not be able to handle the Spanish Clasico, I don't know why, but I think that they are wrong. Another sure name for semifinals.

    Kassai: having already officiated Barça against Milan, I think that Kassai will be appointed in the other match, which could be Real - Borussia, Borussia - Bayern and Bayern - Real. Anyway, the fact that one year ago he got already this same appointment could be taken into account.


    Therefore, the big problem for Brych would be a draw with the two German teams in two different matches, in that case UEFA would be unable to appoint him in a semifinal, and of course in case of a German team also in final, he would be out from everything. On the contrary, in case of a Spanish final (el Clasico) the choice would be open between him and Rizzoli, and I think that the Italian referee would have a solid "opponent" for Wembley. Very difficult choices to be made by UEFA.









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  10. As I we have a group of judges after the resignation of the judges who judged by matches 1\4 final, and the resignation of Alberto U. Mallenco, and Felix Brych, and adding Collum or possibly Atkinson, and Benquerenca. Judges are those which UEFA will select 5 REFEREESto matches 1\2 final, and final

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  11. Anonymous11/4/13 13:30

    I would do that:

    Webb, Proenca, Kassai, Rizzoli - CL 1/2
    Skomina, Brych, Mazic, Mateu Lahoz - EL 1/2

    Skomina or Brych - CL final (who perform better in EL 1/2)
    Kuipers - EL final

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    Replies
    1. I agree with Chefren very clear explanation and comment, and all depends from CL drwaing. Lets' suppose of two fascinating derby: german and "el clasico", in tyhis hypo I predict
      BM Vs. BD Weeb (1st leg) - Proence (return)
      El clasico: Skomina (1st leg) - Kassai (return)

      It seems that tehse 4 names are without alternatives.
      For final Cl I think that we still have 3 candidates: Brych will be out in case german derby in the semifinal, Cakir will be out in case of Real M will be in Wembley, so it seems that Rizzoli should be the most suitable.

      For EL the choice is a little bit complicate for me: I think that Tagliavento and Undiano will be in the semifinals, who else ? Maybe Moen and Kralovec or Collum. And for final what do you think Brych in case of German team in CL final ? even if Stark (german) will officate last final. Or Cakir

      Delete
    2. For me Rizzoli may be better in EL. He didn't have the best possible season and from what I observed in Malaga - Porto I think it is better not to be involved at the CL SF or Final.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous11/4/13 15:00

      Moen should be rather relegated after his last CL match (Real-Galata). Missed 3 penalties and red card + many other inconsistencies is the worst CL referee performance in many last seasons. Sorry, Niclas E., but your report is completely unreliable. 7.9???

      Delete
    4. But I see that I have forgotten to integrate the correctly rejected penalty appeal of Gala for alleged deliberate handball in the report, in that context you are right. Nonetheless, he only missed one penalty, not three.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous11/4/13 15:55

      20' - missed two brutal fouls: Ozil on Eboue (missed yellow card - it's not acceptable even if we take into account low position of Eboue's head), Benzema must be sent-off for deliberate brutal kung-fu tackle on Kaya.
      28' - at first undeliberate, than deliberate handball of Khedira, missed penalty
      51' - Nounkeu deliberately steps on Di Maria hand, missed penalty
      78' - missed penalty for a foul on Yilmaz (wrong yellow card for a dive)

      Missed cards in 12, 16 - here he could have manage it without card but verbal warning is a must, 28 (he allowed reckless challenge and didn't whistle free kick), 59, 72, 75, 88, 90 (dive, he whistled free kick).

      Total lack of control. Can we call it as expected performance with one crucial error?

      Delete
    6. I do not share your assessment on the situation in minute 28, as I said I forgot to mention it at all, I will add it (nonetheless I do not see any deliberate action). Furthermore no brutal fouls..just a high leg aimed at the ball (and also a low head by Eboue..) and a reckless and dangerous challenged by Benzema. Missed yellow here. Never red.
      My off-report notes were these regarding the situations you mentioned.

      20' 2x high leg?: Özil on #27, nothing ok, Benzema on #26. must be yellow (dp)!
      27' Felipe Melo heads ball onto Khedira’s upper arm, no penalty correct
      52' simulation, di María, GAL 12, no penalty +

      Don't pay attention to the marks 7.9/8.3, I am not UEFA and cannot be perfect in that. Have a look in the points to improve where I listed and explained what you, in my eyes a bit exaggeratedly called "total lack of control".

      Delete
    7. Anonymous11/4/13 16:14

      Cause I have not google account...

      OK, you have other view on Benzema's foul. For me it's a red: high leg challenge on the face must be a red card to me.

      First Khedira's handball was indeed unintentional, but then it's deliberate movement of hand that stop the ball between him and Essien(?).

      52' Don't think Di Maria simulated, I'm near sure he was stepped on, but even if not, the deliberate movement of Nounkeu leg is worth of penalty and yellow card (second=red) IMHO.

      Delete
    8. Regarding Benzema. It's this sometimes unclear borderline between dangerous play and serious foul play. I must admit if Moen sends him off in such an early moment of the game I would have praised him for that. But it's no totally clear red card. It's for me personally a yellow, I can accept you see it differently. Thus I did not see a reason to think about a crucial mistake here.
      I rewatched the scene, it was Essien. It was a collision, I would never say it's careless or deliberate handball. AAR2 immediately shouted in his micro that it was nothing (at least he said something, if not that, what else..).
      First di María clearly simulated, then Nounkeu touched his hand with his foot. For me it's decisive what his head did. He did not look at di María, so I see no clear infringement here either, just stepping on a hand of someone does not necessarily have to be a foul. You can consider it as a foul to be penalized, yes, I strongly doubt UEFA did so though.
      I change the report to 7.8/8.2 by the way, it will be uploaded in a few minutes.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous11/4/13 16:36

      The decisive factor here is the movement of Nounkeu in direction of Di Maria's hand. It was so clear, hence it was an intention of Galata player. And the referee was in a perfect position...

      Right, collision, but before that, Khedira straightens his hand in direction of Essien, blocking the way where the ball would go. The player on that level must be aware and at least I can be near sure he did it deliberately to not cause a big mess which could result in accidental goal.

      OK, I can take your point regarding Benzema, but such tackle (high leg with studs up on normally positioned head) is a red card offence in 90% of cases. The atmosphere, the importance of the game could've caused that Moen would have shown the yellow card, but nothing???

      Regards, and not, you don't need to change the mark if you think it was expected performance, but I think it wasn't. It was far worse performance than Stark's one at Old Trafford. At least, regarding unmature approach and many many mistakes.

      Delete
    10. No I changed it just because you are right. I listed all those elements and points for improvement but closed both eyes in the mark-section. It's ok like that, I compared this performance to another 8.3 I gave (Aydinus) and thus corrected it.
      Giving nothing in the Benzema situation was definitely wrong, that's a fact. On the other situations we don't agree, but that's no problem.
      Regards :)

      Delete
    11. Anonymous11/4/13 16:47

      Moen got 8.3 by the observer and you are talking about the worst performance in several years...? Get realistic and see the whole picture.

      Delete
    12. Anonymous11/4/13 16:50

      @Anonymous
      8.3? You should be realistic. For sure, Norwegian referee fan...

      Delete
    13. We can have these discussions for the whole year if you want. Each of you is an anonymous, writes information like "Moen got 8.3" or "Proenca gets no CL semifinal due to bad performances this season" and nobody can proof it because of anonymous identities and no ideas where this source comes from. I love that.

      Delete
    14. Anonymous11/4/13 17:05

      OK, I will write my name in next posts.
      It's me who discussed with Admin about Moen.

      Admin, I don't think any of those sensations are correct... Nobody from UEFA would post such things here and never would give those highly confidential news to somebody. Those are probably fans/friends of referees who try to defend them and peoples who try to influence our perception of some referees because they don't like them. It's all.

      - - - - -

      JAE PARKINSON

      Delete
    15. Thanks. It helps to get an idea who wrote what. It is not necessary to give a real name though.

      Delete
    16. Anonymous11/4/13 18:30

      I am the other anonymous and I prefer to not give up my name - I hope that's OK.

      I don't want to argue or offend anyone that have an opinion who differs from mine, but I am not a fan of any particular referee and I'm never defending anyone if they doesn't deserved to be defended. All I can say, without disrespecting anyone or say that my opinion is the only right one, if Moens mark was 7.9 or much lower (which Jae Parkinson suggested) he wouldn't get any further match this season... If he does, you will know that he received a higher mark than that and that you are wrong. Until then there's no reason to discuss further!

      Delete
    17. You do not have to give your name, you could just make a signature when you post your comments so that we are able to divide them from other anonymouses. That's basically all I target at.
      With regard to Moen, the penalty he missed was clear. I would be surprised if the observer did not mark that as a crucial mistake. Because then I will stop thinking about any strategy behind this evaluation scale UEFA deploys. I know I know, observers always back the referee and attempt to find the smallest doubt on a call/non-call to justify a certain good mark, but at some point, UEFA should then also explain to Galatasaray that they consider this non-given penalty as no mistake. As you said, we'll know it soon, because if he got 8.3 or so, then he should get an EL semi.

      Delete
    18. Anonymous11/4/13 19:59

      I don't see anything wrong in discussing our views regarding marks given by us (private, unprofessional ones). Of course, his another appoitment will indicate the mark he has received or too many connections inside UEFA ;)

      As the final word, I can say that TO ME Moen's performance was the worst this season and he should be even taken into account regarding demotions. But I underline, that it's only my opinion. For me it was worse then 7.4...

      - - - - -

      JAE PARKINSON

      Delete
  12. Kuipers won't have the EL final since it's held in Amsterdam. I guess UEFA will appoint him for an EL SF but from what I have seen from him in 2 crucial matches (Bosnia - Greece and Barcelona - PSG) I think that he can have the CL final.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11/4/13 14:33

      Is it the law that the referee from NED can't handle the final in NED? If yes, I think it's one of the most stupid laws...

      Delete
    2. No there isn't a written law but it is what UEFA is doing at least since 2000. I can remember many finals when they could appoint a referee from the host country and never did it.

      Delete
    3. IN 1990 austrian referee Helmut Kohl managed final CL match in Wien between Milan and Benfica and the year after 1991, italian Tullio Lanese was in Bari for CL final match between CVena ZVEVDA and... (dont' remember)

      Delete
    4. Crvena Zvezda - Olympique Marseille :)
      BTW I don't think that Kuipers will be appointed for a final (CL or EL), since he had Super Cup.
      He could be taken into account for the future.
      Maybe a second leg of EL semifinal... it they want to appoint him again, after the performance under the eyes of Vassaras.

      Delete
    5. I can understand your assessment that in the added time there was a bit confusion, but I think that's typical of such a match..it must be tense and Kuipers did all he could to prevent a lack of control. Sensible booking against Beckham. What do you think of Jordi Alba's action after having been fouled? Should it have been a booking?

      For me in a sum a really good evening for the whole team, and that's already the fourth convincing CL performance of all of them in this season.

      Delete
    6. 1992-05-13
      Ajax 0–0 Torino Olympisch Stadion, Amsterdam
      Attendance: 42,000
      Referee: Zoran Petrović (Yugoslavia)

      Ajax

      Torino
      GK 1 Stanley Menzo
      DF 2 Danny Blind
      DF 4 Wim Jonk
      DF 5 Frank De Boer
      DF 3 Sonny Silooy
      MF 6 Aron Winter
      MF 7 John Van't Schip
      MF 10 Rob Alflen
      MF 8 Michel Kreek 80'
      FW 11 Bryan Roy 65'
      FW 9 Stefan Pettersson
      Substitutes:
      GK 12 Edwin van der Sar
      MF 14 Marciano Vink 80'
      FW 15 John van Loen 65'
      MF 16 Alfons Groenendijk
      FW 17 Dan Petersen
      Manager:
      Louis van Gaal

      Man Of The Match:
      Assistant Referees:
      GK 1 Luca Marchegiani
      DF 2 Roberto Mussi
      DF 6 Roberto Cravero 58'
      DF 4 Luca Fusi
      DF 5 Silvano Benedetti
      MF 10 Rafael Martín Vázquez
      MF 11 Giorgio Venturin
      MF 7 Enzo Scifo 62'
      MF 3 Roberto Policano
      MF 8 Gianluigi Lentini
      ST 9 Walter Casagrande
      Substitutes:
      GK 12 Raffaele Di Fusco
      MF 14 Sandro Cois
      MF 13 Gianluca Sordo 58'
      FW 15 Giorgio Bresciani 62'
      FW 16 Christian Vieri
      Manager:
      Emiliano Mondonico

      Delete
    7. http://fudbalskisudija.blogspot.com/2012/11/zoran-petrovic-ocenjuje-kuipersa.html

      (SCO) Celtic vs FC Barcelona (ESP)
      Wednesday, 07 November 2012, 20:45 CET, Celtic Park, Glasgow (SCO) Group G
      Referee: Björn Kuipers (NED)
      Assistant Referee 1: Sander van Roekel (NED)
      Assistant Referee 2: Erwin Zeinstra (NED)
      Fourth Official: Davie Goossens (NED)
      Additional Assistant Referee 1: Richard Liesveld (NED)
      Additional Assistant Referee 2: Ed Janssen (NED)
      UEFA Delegate: Balázs Makray (HUN)
      UEFA Referee Observer: Zoran Petrović (SRB)
      Referee Liaison Officer: Sandy Roy (SCO)
      Connect! I think it Kuipers deserves final match. :)

      Delete
    8. @Chefren

      Kuipers got Super Cup last season and not this one (Skomina).

      @Admin.

      I don't blame Kuipers for the last 4 minutes. Surely a match like this one can deploy such confusion.
      I have decided to mark him with 8.4.

      Report will be sent to you later today or tomorrow morning.

      Delete
    9. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    10. For sure people should have to register to post on this site, the amount of anonymous posters making ridiculous claims and observations and not having anything to back them up is getting farcical. "Moen got 8.3" you must be wired to the moon

      Delete
  13. Anonymous11/4/13 15:16

    Now you know the standard of refereeing we have to put up with every week in Scotland.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Perhaps you remember Schalke responsible Horst Heldt who criticized Thomson after Twente-Schalke.
    Now, he put forward a pledge for technological aids in football. His argumentation is that on such a level game changing mistakes may not decide about which team proceeds to a semifinal. He stated one had very rarely the chance as a player to get into the semifinals of this competition and that it was unbelievable that in football video devices might not be deployed because one feared that the game's character would change. He said one should ask Málaga's players what they think about that. Additionally he bolstered his argumentation by referring to icehockey where video devices are a usual praxis for years and benefit to a better game.

    What do you think?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11/4/13 20:15

      I can say, the most of referees (if not all) want more technology due to heavy criticism they receive from furious fans, players and coaches.

      The football at CL/EL level is so fast and difficult to referees that they aren't able to avoid mistakes (often heavy ones)... We can see it in our marks, where rarely they're more than 7.9.

      The statement of many referees is: technology or without technology, but also without a pressure and media attacks. It'seasy to say, the second option is impossible.

      In a sum, I would take this point presented by Heldt. The newest technologies should be introduced to modern football because referees (humans) can't cope with that ultra-high pace and pressure in every CL/EL match.

      But then a question: how will UEFA choose referees for the finals (criteria)? And what if assistant raise his flag in crucial situation, stopping the action and the replay will show it was mistake...?

      - - - - -

      JAE PARKINSON

      Delete
    2. Right and therefore I think that for refereeing, this option would mean kind of end. I understand the reasons why many people demand it and I also do not share this philosophical opinion "the character of the game would suffer from it", but for us, as we represent refereeing in a way, it would be grave. It's the question whether we want a perfect game or not. The easiest sentence is: players make mistakes and are human, the referees are so, too. But you are right, the medial pressure is way too high at the moment and all we can do is work against that ;)

      Delete
    3. Anonymous11/4/13 20:46

      "Wait... Stop the game"
      -OK
      "I want you to review Messis situation".
      -Yes... After seeing the video I can state that the pass to Villa instead of Iniesta, who had open goal, was a crucial mistake.

      Sounds good...? Ask the Schalke representative if this is what he had in mind?

      Players make mistakes. That's acceptable. Referees make mistakes - that's also acceptable. Goal line technology is very good and very necessary, but everything else is pure nonsense.

      (Saw your remark above, Nic - sounds healthy. Will sign my comments with "Webbs hairy chest".

      /Webbs hairy chest

      Delete
    4. Anonymous11/4/13 20:52

      (I hope Howard would be proud and hope to represent his impressive fitness in a good way!) :D

      Delete
    5. I see the problems, I can only say how it is handled in icehockey e.g., not evaluating that now in any form:
      if e.g. a tremendously fast shot is deflected by a player's leg and crosses the goalline, first the goal is given. Deliberate legs/footplay are forbidden in icehockey as you probably know.
      The referee has then the chance to consult the video official, he leaves the field of play and talks with him via micro. He then returns onto the field and either points to the midfield circle, meaning GOAL, or he annulles it. At any rate, players and fans accept the calls, because one cannot expect a good and always correct decision taking from them, ice hockey is simply too fast and complex. Same goes for normal hockey, also here there are match officials for each tournament, two on the pitch and one in front of a tv screen. In crucial situations captain may ask the ref to consult the video official and the refs also have the chance to do it themselves. There are no discussions mostly.
      Whether this is possible in football, I don't know, probably not for different reasons. But at least we must see that teams who depend from these kind of matches must be allowed to expect the best decisions possible in at such a level, UEFA fails to guarantee that at the moment. That's a mere diagnosis, how to solve it, is another question.

      Delete
  15. Hello, admin! Do you know referee for European Championship under 17 Slovackia may 2013? Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Brych is out from CL semifinals...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Final EL match for him ?

      Delete
    2. Difficult, since one year ago the match was handled by Stark.
      Only in case of Real Madrid - Barça as CL final, Brych will be a candidate, but for now I see a sure appointment in EL semifinal. Otherwise, he could really remains without any further match this season.

      Delete
  17. Anonymous12/4/13 13:56

    Predictions:

    CL:
    Dortmund - Real Madrid : Pedro Proenca
    Bayern Munchen - Barcelona : Viktor Kassai

    Barcelona - Bayern Munchen : Howard Webb
    Real Madrid - Dortmund : Damir Skomina

    Final: Classico ( Brych ), otherwise Nicola Rizolli.

    EL:
    Fenerbahce - Benfica : Felix Brych
    Basel - Chelsea : Jonas Eriksson

    Chelsea - Basel : Svein Oddvar Moen
    Benfica - Fenerbahce : Bjorn Kuipers

    Final: Stephane Lannoy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why Lannoy?
      He got just one match in EL this year due to the injury...

      Delete
    2. Anonymous12/4/13 14:06

      He had a good performance in Turkey, a reliable ref. The last Frenchman with a final was Veissiere in 2001. I think he is ready to whistle a final.

      But I don't think he is the best option, I would like to see Kuipers or Moen there. But I think UEFA will appoint Lannoy.

      Delete
  18. Predictions, by way of a variation...

    CL:
    Dortmund - Real Madrid : Howard Webb (ENG)
    Bayern Munchen - Barcelona : Viktor Kassai (HUN)

    Barcelona - Bayern Munchen : Pedro Proenca (POR)
    Real Madrid - Dortmund : Gianluca Rocchi (ITA)

    Final: Damir Skomina (SVN)

    EL:
    Fenerbahce - Benfica : Nicola Rizzoli (ITA)
    Basel - Chelsea : Björn Kuipers (NED)

    Chelsea - Basel : Jonas Eriksson (SWE)
    Benfica - Fenerbahce : Stéphane Lannoy (FRA)

    Final: Felix Brych (GER)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you sure?
      After Stark last year, now Brych?
      Furthermore, take into account that if they appoint Brych this year for Amsterdam, then for the next seasons (3 at least) he will be out from CL final, because they can't appoint again the same referee. I think that the best option for him is to be appointed in EL semifinal, then to wait, in case of a possible Real - Barça in CL final.
      If still not possible, then another chance will be the Super Cup (always if possible) or maybe CL final next year.
      It would be a burden for Brych the EL final now, I know that it's a strange speech, but you can take as example Rizzoli with EL final in 2010, it was an excellent assignment, but then? This left him out from 2011 and 2012 CL final.
      Brych is still quote young.

      Delete
    2. As I said, it's just a bit variation..I also do not think that Rocchi gets a semifinal, but I would like to see the appointments as I wrote them.
      And the question is whether this national speech really is what uefa applies. I have the theory that Collina looks at individual referees, not at nationalities. And therefore the best referee(s) available should get the final match(es). I am aware of the fact that politics prevail in most of the cases, but the argument that Brych would be out from everything in 2014 may not count in my opinion, at least I hope it does not..
      In 2015, keep that in mind, the final is in Munich. So if not this year, Brych could only get the CL final in Lisbon and also this is VERY unsure because I think FC Bayern have established among the top2 in Europe and are always eager to reach the final..
      I must say that now, I would definitely dislike el clásico as a final. CL deserves more, better football matches. If I want to see a fight, I go to Las Vegas and watch wrestling or so. So I hope there will be one German team, or even both..and then, Brych would be out, Skomina could have a chance. I really refuse to think Rizzoli's performances are enough for this final. But in the end, UEFA perhaps has no other chance.

      Delete
    3. ***in Berlin of course.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous12/4/13 16:12

      @Chefren; why Brych will be out for the next three seasons?

      In 2006; Fandel did the Uefa Cup final, a year later he refereed the CL final.
      2007 Uefa cup; Busacca. 2009 Champions League; Busacca.

      Delete
    5. What about Cakir for Allianz Arena?

      Delete
    6. Anonymous12/4/13 19:04

      I would agrre in 3 of 4 CL-semis:
      Bayern-Barca: Kassai --> reason: was in charge of bvb-real, for me impossible that he´ll get one match two times a competition. Furthermore, he was in Barca this year. So, he should go to munich.
      Barca-Bayern: Proenca either had Bayern nor Barca. So, he would fit perfectly. Besides, UEFA could avoid ref from Portugal and coach from Portugal (remember Inter-Barca in 2010).
      BVB-Real: Webb. He should definitively get a semi. He already had Dortmund in an away match, so I could imagine that he´ll go to dortmund.
      Real-BVB: Because of harsh criticism of Mourinho in City-Real, I don´t expect Rocchi. I think Skomina will do it. He had both teams this season, had no problems with them. And maybe he is a bit too young and IMO a bit unexperienced in the real big games (of course he had good matches but not the top clashes, either in CL nor in EURO. If Skomina for CL-final, I would say Kuipers for Real-BVB.
      Final: El clasico --> Brych
      otherwise --> Rizzoli

      Best regards phil (no google account, so this nickname ;) )

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    7. @Anonymous
      I think that now is really difficult to see a referee officiating EL final a year, and then CL final the subsequent one.... it happened in the past, yes, but now UEFA has a big choice and many referees, for the Europa League final in Amsterdam there are many names, I'm going on to think that Brych would be wasted for this match...

      Delete
    8. Yes I share your views. Brych would be a surprise in EL final, in the end I predicted him also for another reason. If CL is not possible due to a German final team, then he should get either EL semi or the final. Also because it is Germany. These bigger football nations mostly get more matches and I think this can compensate the low number of 2 CL k.o. appearances of German officials.
      By the way do you think that Brych's refereeing style fits to a clásico? My answer is yes. Even better than Rizzoli's I think.

      Delete
    9. I am with admin's thinking Chef, because I'm not sure I am as prepared as you both for a ECL final for Brych. More in the line ahead of him for next 2-3 years IMO.

      Have said from the start that I would like Skomina or Cakir, but think Rizzoli has been knocking for too long, hmm

      Delete
  19. I am going to upload the reports I received during the week tomorrow.
    Marks so far:

    Stark (PSG-BAR): 8.1
    Mazic (TOT-BAS): 8.4
    Thomson (BVB-MAL): 8.0
    Lannoy (GAL-RMA): 8.4
    Velasco (JUV-BAY): 8.4
    Kuipers (BAR-PSG): 8.4

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aydinus mark 7.9 (8.3)
      of course!
      report almost ready, but I can anticipate that there was not that much to talk about, at the end only the penalty call... a madness during a so easy match...

      Delete
    2. Bebek 8.3! 69' - the game changed character, it has become difficult for the trial. I was thinking about 8.5, but his reaction ( and team reaction ) to confrontations between the players in the last 25 and misconduct ( 69' , 81' ) minutes are unacceptably low ( must be mobile in confrontations ).
      AR1- 8.5
      AR2- 8.5

      Delete
  20. My predictions:
    CL:
    Dortmund - Real Madrid : Howard Webb (ENG)
    Bayern Munchen - Barcelona : Cüneyt Cakir (TUR)

    Barcelona - Bayern Munchen : Damir Skomina (SVN)
    Real Madrid - Dortmund : Viktor Kassai (HUN)

    Final: Nicola Rizzoli (ITA)

    EL:
    Fenerbahce - Benfica : Paolo Tagliavento (ITA)
    Basel - Chelsea : Pedro Proenca (POR)

    Chelsea - Basel : Björn Kuipers (NED)
    Benfica - Fenerbahce : Felix Brych (GER)

    Final: Jonas Eriksson (SWE)

    Reasons:
    For the match between the currently best two teams, I would take the IMO currently best two referees; I think, an appointment of Cakir in SF should not be a big problem.
    For the other matches in CL, there are 4 big names left; only Rizzoli did not have the final, so I chose him here. Proenca was the weakest of the remaining, so I chose Webb and Kassai for Dortmund-Real.
    In EL, I have Brych and Proenca, who quite surely get another match, then Kuipers, who I also considered for a CL semifinal, but it seems UEFA does not like to use the referees from the QF again. The last place, I gave to Tagliavento, because he did not have a QF, but I could also imagine Moen, Rizzoli or Velasco here. In the last EL finals, there were always experienced referees, who did not have a final before, this explains my choice Eriksson.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good analysis, I would like these appointments with the exception of Tagliavento. He has a weak performance to my mind.
      I forgot to consider Undiano Mallenco in my predictions!

      Delete
    2. Tagliavento is not in his best season... BTW I see Eriksson as strong candidate for EL final, I agree with you about that.

      Delete
    3. So Undiano instead of Tagliavento could be a good idea...

      Delete
    4. Philip, I would signup this predictions as mine as Undiano is in and
      EL final referee is changed as Lannoy.

      Delete
  21. Anonymous14/4/13 15:35

    Who will be the refs of national cup finals (especially who will be ref of Real-Atletico?)
    Concerning German Cup final, I´d say everything depends on what Bayern does. If they go to the final, it should be Manuel Gräfe. I think DFB waits for this appointment because he was not in charge of Bayern since october or november. This is very unnormal that one of the best german ref has no bayern matches for such a long time.
    If bayern won´t be in final, it should be Günter Perl because in years without Bayern in final, DFB usually appoints a ref from Bayern. Because of his age, it could be Perl´s last chance to get the cup final.

    Best regards phil

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree about Germany, but in the second case it could also be Brych or Gräfe, I think.

      Without being an expert, I guess the following:
      ENG: Marriner
      ITA: Banti
      SPA: Clos Gomez

      In Germany and England it is not usual to get the final more than once, in Spain it seems to be no problem. How is it in other countrys?

      Delete
    2. I would like to predict these ones:

      England:
      Man City/Chelsea - Wigan: Kevin Friend (alternative: Mike Jones)

      Germany:
      Bayern - Stuttgart/Freiburg: Manuel Gräfe or Dr. Jochen Drees

      Italy:
      Inter/AS Roma - Lazio Roma: Paolo Mazzoleni or Andrea Romeo

      Spain:
      Real - Atlético: Miguel Perez Lasa or Carlos Delgado Ferreiro.


      Of course in the last case, the chances Mateu Lahoz are also quite high, but I prefer rewarding experienced officials.

      Delete
    3. Very difficult for Mazzoleni, since he got Super Cup at the beginning of the season, and many other important matches.
      Banti could be a choice, as well as Orsato.

      Delete
  22. Here in England, many are touting Mark Clattenburg for the FA cup final. To be selected for the World Cup next year he has to have officiated a FA cup final, which he currently hasn't. It is more likely now because Chelsea have now just been eliminated by Manchester City. I predict:

    Manchester City vs. Wigan Athletic
    Referee: Mark Clattenburg
    Assistant referees: Stephen Child & Simon Long
    Fourth official: Anthony Taylor

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Clattenburg is very well possible, but I don't see the connection to the World Cup. At least, Wolfgang Stark did not have the German cup final before WC 2010, so I doubt there is rule by FIFA. Or is there anything official, that says so?

      Delete
    2. Thanks for the correction. I thought that a referee would have to officiate there national cup final inorder to be selected for the World Cup. I must be thinking of something else.

      Delete
  23. Hi NH / Admin

    Yes, I think we can be fairly certain that Clatts will get this year's final.

    I also agree with your assistants - with the caveat being S Ledger pushing the committee for a place instead of Long. But I'd go with Long.

    Taylor has had a fantastic season, has deserves his FIFA promotion so also think he'll get 4th.

    Admin: Friend and Jones don't have a chance Im afraid. Friend because he had Community shield, and that is rare, but mainly because both have had inconsistent seasons. Marriner has greater chances.

    Agree on Grafe, Mazzoleni and Ferreiro / Lahoz

    ReplyDelete
  24. If Clatts not chosen then perhaps Probert who has been relatively superb this term.

    My ranking for English refs:

    1. Clattenburg
    2. Taylor
    3. Probert / Moss
    4. Oliver / Dean
    5. Atkinson / Marriner
    6. Webb / Foy
    7. Jones
    8. Friend
    9. Mason
    10 East & Pawson (< 3 games)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Friend as low as 8th? He has been one of the stand out officials in the Premier League. That's why he was appointed for the Capital One Cup final and the Community Shield. I think he has had a stellar season. I would have put Jones at the bottom of the list after his disastrous season. To be fair he has recovered in recent weeks. My list would be:

      1. Taylor/Clattenburg (most impressive officials)
      2. Moss/ Freind
      3. Oliver
      4. Marriner/Dean
      5. Foy/Dowd
      6. Webb/Atkinson (poor to average campaigns)
      7. Swarbrick
      8. Jones/Mason (should be removed from Select Group)
      9. Halsey (time to hang up his whistle)

      Delete
  25. I realised I left Halsey/Swarbrick out.

    Halsey would have to be much higher - bit of a misnomer that he has been poor, just had average game at Stoke and missed CM red tackle. His handling of Liv-Utd once again was superb. Swarbrick further down.

    Friend has done much better yes, and don't forget there is little between each placement.

    Don't agree on point 6 - too easy to say this for me. Atkinson's key games (London derby / relegation 3-pointers e.g.) have been well handled.

    Moss has been a revelation

    ReplyDelete
  26. I was just sitting here watching the game between AC Milan and Napoli when I noticed Gianluca Rochhi does not have a FIFA badge. Why don't officials in Seria A wear FIFA badges on their jerseys?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because, unlike the other countries (Germany, Spain and so on) Italian referees wear a kit produced by DIADORA which doesn't includes the presence of the FIFA badge. It is such since many years (surely more than 15), I don't know if in the old times they were wearing it.


      Here the three kits for this season.

      http://www.diadora.com/sports-arbitri-divise-diadora_22_49

      Delete
    2. Thanks for the information.

      Delete
  27. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1218385/Thomson-admits-got-Maloney-penalty-claim-wrong.html

    Here you can see the old style diadora kit worn by Craig Thomson with the badge. So they do produce them.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Mark Clattenburg has just been appointed to oversee the game between West Ham United and Wigan Athletic. This might mean he will not get the FA cup final because in the past cup final referee's don't get either finalists leading up to the final. I think the FA cup final is in just over three weeks so we will see. My second option would be Andre Marriner.

    ReplyDelete
  29. So it is Marriner, Child and Long. Taylor as 4th official for the FA Cup final.

    Good choices

    ReplyDelete
  30. Well, I expected that after Mondays Select Group appointments. I predicted the correct assistant referees which is great. Good luck to all officials involved.

    ReplyDelete
  31. If Clattenburg does not officiate next year's FA cup final and gets selected for the World Cup, he will be the first English referee since 1966 to do so.

    ReplyDelete
  32. In any game, Dortmund shirt is always so obvious.

    ReplyDelete
  33. in malaga goal does not affect offside rule(if was anulate is ok)... but in dortmund last goal are 4 players offside + the player who score is the second offside minimun 1m before (because the defender is out of line) ll!!!! these goals change all the champions ligue tour... what hapend with this arbitrator.... i heard that the arbitrator of chelsea vs barcelona 2009 just except from uefa!!!! but when he go with all that brocken heart and all who play gamblig!!!! they are profesinist they cant mistake, they play for Platini, and work for gamblim conpany for sure........

    ReplyDelete

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