October 30, 2016

Champions League 2016/17 - Referee Appointments for Matchday 4 (Tuesday)

UEFA has chosen the following eight officiating teams to take control over next Tuesday's Champions League ties in Groups A - D. 



Group A, 1 November 2016, Sofia (BUL) 
Ludogorets - Arsenal FC
Referee: Bas Nijhuis (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Rob van de Ven (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Charles John Schaap (NED)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Serdar Gözübüyük (NED)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Ed Janssen (NED)
4th Official: Patrick Langkamp (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Murat Ilgaz (TUR)
UEFA Delegate: Balázs Makray (HUN)

Group A, 1 November 2016, Basel (SUI)
FC Basel - Paris SG
Referee: Ovidiu Alin Hategan (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Octavian Sovre (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Sebastian Eugen Gheorghe (ROU)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Radu Marian Petrescu (ROU)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Sebastian Coltescu (ROU)
4th Official: Radu Adrian Ghinguleac (ROU)
UEFA Referee Observer: Hans Reijgwart (NED)
UEFA Delegate: Panagiotis Chatzialexiou (GER)

Group B, 1 November 2016, Lisbon (POR) 
SL Benfica - Dynamo Kyiv
Referee: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Cyril Gringore (FRA)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Ruddy Buquet (FRA)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Benoît Bastien (FRA)
4th Official: Hicham Zakrani (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Francesco Bianchi (SUI)
UEFA Delegate: Roland Tis (BEL)

Group B, 1 November, Istanbul (SUI) 
Besiktas - SSC Napoli
Referee: Mark Clattenburg (ENG)
Assistant Referee 1: Jake Collin (ENG)
Assistant Referee 2: Simon Bennett (ENG)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Anthony Taylor (ENG)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Andre Marriner (ENG)
4th Official: Ian Hussin (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Sergey Zuev (RUS)
UEFA Delegate: Tormod Larsen (NOR)

Group C, 1 November, 2016, Mönchengladbach (GER) 
Borussia M'gladbach - Celtic FC
Referee: Manuel de Sousa (POR)
Assistant Referee 1: Alvaro Mesquita (POR)
Assistant Referee 2: Ricardo Santos (POR)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Carlos Taborda Xistra (POR)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: João Capela (POR)
4th Official: Paulo Santos Soares (POR)
UEFA Referee Observer: Jørn West Larsen (DEN)
UEFA Delegate: Harry Been (NED)

Group C, 1 November, Manchester (ENG) 
Manchester City - FC Barcelona
Referee: Viktor Kassai (HUN)
Assistant Referee 1: György Ring (HUN)
Assistant Referee 2: Vencel Tóth (HUN)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Tamás Bognar (HUN)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Ádám Farkas (HUN)
4th Official: Peter Berettyán (HUN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Michel Vautrot (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Rudolf Repka (CZE)

Group D, 1 November 2016, Madrid (ESP) 
Atlético Madrid - FC Rostov
Referee: Craig Thomson (SCO)
Assistant Referee 1: David McGeachie (SCO)
Assistant Referee 2: Alan Mulvanny (SCO)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Robert Madden (SCO)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Andrew Dallas (SCO)
4th Official: Graeme Stewart (SCO)
UEFA Referee Observer: Georgios Bikas (GRE)
UEFA Delegate: Georg Lüchinger (LIE)

Group D, 1 November 2016, Eindhoven (NED)
PSV Eindhoven - Bayern München
Referee: Gianluca Rocchi (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Elenito Di Liberatore (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Mauro Tonolini (ITA)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Antonio Damato (ITA)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Daniele Doveri (ITA)
4th Official: Gianluca Cariolato (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Zbigniew Przesmycki (POL)
UEFA Delegate: Jacques Antenen (SUI)

140 Comments:

  1. So, Clattenburg again. This could mean that his appointment in Europa League two weeks ago was a replacement for another referee. If we will not see Moen in any game, I would say that he was originally appointed for Krasnodar - Schalke.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or Mateu Lahoz was planned for Besiktas-Napoli and has now been replaced.

      Delete
    2. Possible as well. However, he got injured during Sevilla - Alavés (01/10), I think appointments for MD3 and MD4 were made after that.

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    3. Not possible he was planes for Besiktas-Napoli after CSKA Moscow-Napoli

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    4. Something which strongly support that:

      Originally, Peter Jones was appointed for Besiktas-Napoli. Zuev was planned for Dortmund. They swapped the games last days, probably because Clatts was not planned for Istanbul originally.

      Delete
  2. So far, if I'm not wrong, the only three Elite referees that have not been appointed for CL matches are Moen, Undiano Mallenco and Eriksson, right?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are right. No matches for them.

      Delete
  3. I would predict Kuipers for Tottenham v Leverkusen and Brych for Juventus v Lyon!!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Updated predictions:

    CSK-MON: Makkelie
    TOT-LEV: Kuipers
    BVB-SPO: Eriksson
    LEG-RMA: Kulbakov
    KOB-LEI: Brych
    POR-BRU: Undiano
    SEV-DIN: Jug
    JUV-LYO: Zwayer

    Difficult to make predictions this time, but I see no room for Moen and Kralovec. Makkelie is possible in JUV-LYO as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't you think Juventus v Lyon should go to Brych and Copenhagen v Leicester to Zwayer??

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    2. Would be nicer to have both Germans in one group to keep options for the next matchday. That would probably mean in Porto. But then there is not really a game for Undiano.
      Kulbakov might be another option for JUV-LYO with Kralovec (or Atkinson?) then for LEG-RMA.

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    3. *mean Zwayer in Porto.

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    4. Do you really believe that Juventus - Lyon could be for a Category 1 (Makkelie, Kulbakov and so on...)? I disagree. I think that the game doesn't require a very experienced or high profile Elite, but still an Elite for me.

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    5. @Chefren
      What's your take on the requirements for Tottenham v Leverkusen, Dortmund v Sporting CP and Copenhagen v Leicester??

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    6. I basically agree that Juventus-Lyon needs someone experienced. Fröjdfeldt as observer influenced my predictions to be honest.

      In Guess The Referee I indeed predicted Brych in Kobenhavn and Zwayer in Porto (for the reasons Philipp correctly mentioned), but thinking about it again, I think Sarvan rather suits to Undiano. Kobenhavn-Leicester might seem low-profile, but as Rizzoli in the 1st leg showed: It is a close game in the group and that's why UEFA maybe paid some extra attention when they made the assignments.

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    7. @Soham
      My ideas about the games you mentioned are the following: Tottenham - Leverkusen needs a very experienced Elite, I think Kuipers will be there.
      The group is still open to any outcome for all teams.
      Borussia - Sporting: it will be the last chance for Portuguese team. In case of defeat, the first two places will be already decided.
      Another Elite is needed: perhaps we can expect Atkinson, but I'm not sure. Eriksson could be a candidate as well, but I don't know whether, after a so long absence from CL, he will get such important game. However, one must say, there aren't not so many other options.
      Copenhagen - Leicester: on the paper, this can be a group decider as well, in case of win by Leicester, the English team would be qualified, while Copenhagen would have to fight for second place with Porto (in case of win by Portuguese team). Also in this case, I would expect an Elite referee. Having to make a choice, I would appoint Královec there.

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    8. @Chefren
      I agree with you here... If Kuipers gets Tottenham v Leverkusen it will be his 2nd English team v German Team clash at the English team's home ground... Can that happen?? I hope it happens!!

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    9. Yes, it is absolutely possible.
      I guess tomorrow we will know many interesting choices by UEFA.

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    10. @Chefren
      Interesting in what way? Can you please elaborate a bit on it? 😃

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    11. I mean, we will see the referees in which committee has a big trust for those games :)

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    12. That's true I'm particularly looking forward to Tottenham v Leverkusen, Dortmund v Sporting and Juventus v Lyon as well 😃

      Delete

  5. New predictions:
    Legia-Real, Sidiropoulos
    Dortmund-Sporting P., Eriksson
    Kobenhavn-Leicester, Zwayer
    Porto-Brugge, Undiano
    Monaco-CSKA, Kralovec
    Tottenham-Leverkusen, Makkelie
    Juventus-Lyon, Atkinson
    Sevilla-D.Zagreb, Brych

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No way... Björn Kuipers will definitely feature somewhere... And Felix Brych can never be appointed for Sevilla v Dinamo Zagreb... Sidiropoulous did a game last MD so not likely for this one...

      Delete

  6. Why Brych cannot be in Sevilla?

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    Replies
    1. On the paper, he can be in Sevilla but the match definitely doesn't sound for him.

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    2. Yes... It doesn't require an Elite referee at all.

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  7. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall a single case of a Slovenian referee handling a Croatian team or vice versa (except friendlies). Therefore Jug for SEV-DIN extremely unlikely.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. True, just did not find another suitable game for him. Maybe he only has UEL this time. But in that case, only Kulbakov comes into question for that game IMO.

      Delete
    2. Jug could get Legia-Real, or do I miss something?
      SEV-DIN might be even good match for a CL debut, but the observer doesn't support that. Maybe Moen is another option there.

      Delete
    3. As Skomina had SPO-BVB, Jug would even be a reasonable option, yes. The only doubt I have here: Layec might be too important, don't know whether Jug has promotion chances.

      Much speculation, probably PLC and co. prove us completely wrong tomorrow :)

      Delete
  8. Another question... Can the UEFA delegate and the referee assigned for a game be of the same nationality here in Champions League?? 😕

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It happens but very rarely. Mostly, it is avoided by UEFA.

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    2. If it's avoided then Kuipers is unlikely for Copenhagen v Leicester.

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  9. Huge appointments for Kassai and Rocchi; high level top clashes. After the appointment for Club World Cup, this big match demonstrate that Kassai has back at highest level and has back granted the trust of Uefa committee. Really happy for him and congratulation. In my opinion is was too early excluded during his low level period in 2014.
    Good for Rocchi too; he officiated last week end Italian top clash Juventus-Naples. It sounds that Uefa is pushing him for WC Russia 2018. Any news about Rizzoli ?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Clattemburg has allowed an offside kick against Napoli in his own pitch, if I am not wrong. Minute 40.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He whistled for handball...

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    2. I think his arm was up. It was an indirect free kick. I should see the image again

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    3. Correct his arm was up, you are right...

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    4. So it can be considered a tecnical fault. Very unusual at top refereeing. Despite this, very impressive refereeing by Clattemburg. Full control and full aceptance by players.

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    5. I might be wrong but in Italy they've explained that in case of offside the foul is whistled where the player touches the ball, no more on the offside line

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    6. I had no news about this. It doesn't make much sense, in my opinion

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    7. This is what David Elleray said about the new laws: “So, in future, the free-kick will always be given where he commits the offside offence, even if he is in his own half, because you cannot be in an offside position in your own half, but you can go back into your own half to commit an offside offence.”

      Source: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jan/08/kickoffs-backwards-rule-changes

      Delete
    8. @Daniel
      I had missed your post, sorry.
      Please, update with new LotG.
      As Marco Neri reported, now a free kick whistled, following an offside offence, can be taken from the exact point where the offside occurred, even if this was on the other half of the pitch.
      More:
      http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/79/92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf
      Page 79

      Delete
  11. Are there some more updates/analysis on Mark Clattenburg's performance??

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  12. 77': penalty for deliberate handball to Besiktas, a correct decision.
    The particular thing is that a few seconds before (76') Clattenburg had correctly rejected other two appeals.
    Very good by the English officiating crew, it is possible that penalty was called by AAR2 or AR2.

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    Replies
    1. three correct decisions in two minutes. congrats to clatts!

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  13. good performance by the english officiating crew..

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  14. I must say very good game by Clattenburg, he showed again his skills. What impresses me is, for example, that before each whistle he tries to wait, reading the action. He whistles only if it is really needed. He is fully concentrated on the game, you can see his gestures. No problems with cards, this evening all the decisions he made were absolutely OK and accepted by players.
    A very top class referee and congratulations to him again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do you really agree with his penalty call? I'm not sure if this really was deliberately...

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  15. Ring starts his game with a very important offside flag, minute 3'.

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  16. Kassai prefers a warning after a clear holding and a tactical foul.
    Merely according to LotG, it was a clear YC.

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    Replies
    1. Another foul not whistled against Sterling... But then Viktor's death stare is just so scary! 😶

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  17. Clear Penalty not whistled by Kassai... Moreover he has yellow-carded Sterling... Very very bad decision and a very crucial mistake IMO...

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  18. YC for simulation, for me a clear penalty. I'm sorry for Kassai.
    One could say that Sterling tried to make it bigger than it really was, but clear contact.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Clear penalty, crucial mistake by Kassai.

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    2. Exactly... The YC for simulation to Sterling was absolutely wrong!!

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  19. PSV-Bayern. 1-0 Offside clair..........

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  20. Wow, what an offside position missed before 1:0 (PSV-FCB) by Mauro Tonolini. More than a meter offside.

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  21. 1-0 PSV, but it seemed like 2 meter offside to me. Even AAR2 looked at ar2 like 'where is the flag'.

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  22. I watched now the goal by PSV, it was in my opinion a total black-out by Tonolini.
    But we must be sure that on the low side of penalty area there weren't other players keeping the scorer ONSIDE. Replays are not clear on that.

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  23. Kassai was awarded 2 big CL games and I'm really sorry to say he has messed up both... Particularly the crucial mistake in this one was really disappointing... Really sad when you see one of your favourite referees making such big errors 😞

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  24. Now a wrong penalty decision by Rocchi. No deliberate handball, hand was close to the body and in a natural position. Controversial performance by the Italian team.

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    Replies
    1. I agree. Watched now: never a deliberate handball. Arm 100% close to body. Natural position, really strange that Rocchi whistled.

      Delete
    2. Comments here suggesting that Rocchi is having a bit of a mare at Eindhoven... Sorry for him 😞

      Delete
  25. Correct no penalty call by Kassai

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  26. Viktor blew the half time whistle some 10 seconds before the exact 45' mark.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On my TV it was around 45:04.

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    2. Then I think it was just the TV broadcaster's problem here that the clock was not updated!!

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    3. It would seem so.

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  27. Hațegan with an okayish performance so far. Some debatable scenes:
    11' - Last warning to a Basel player for team's persistent infringing the LoTG. Maybe a YC would have been less risky. Not a (clear) mistake though, rather a thing to consideration.
    35' - PSG' counterattack, was there a foul at stealing the ball from an opponent?
    39' - Collision between PSG GK and Thiago Silva (also PSG) in the PSG penalty area, Hațegan whistled a foul, was there a one from Basel player?
    45+2' - Another collision, this time between PSG GK and Steffen (Basel). Clear reckless foul of Basel player (elbow in the ribs). PSG GK's behaviour was actually really close to violent conduct. Only Steffen has been booked. Mandatory YC (at least) missed...

    Some really good calls of Sebastian Eugen Gheorghe (19' - excellent onside, 23' - well detected tight offside, 33' - well detected ball going out the field of play, stopped dangerous attack, ). Also two debatable scenes (25' - active or passive offside?, 37' - offside at OGSO, was there one?).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 70' - Two interesting incidents in the PSG penalty area. At first, Marc Janko was pulled for shirt by PSG defender but it had no impact on play as the ball was cleared by another defender. At least strong verbal warning should have been applied though. Corner kick and again PSG players pull their opponents for shirts. This time Thiago Motta and Thomas Meunier. Motta's infringement was more clear BUT occured before the corner kick was executed. However, Meunier's foul occured when the ball was in play. Lack of prevention, alertness and maybe a courage?
      81' - Meunier vs Šporar duel in the PSG penalty area. Meunier (PSG) holds his opponent but it's not enough to fall down and to award a penalty. Correct play-on decision for my taste.
      84' - Very reckless foul of Serey Dié (BSL) who was already booked. Hațegan did not play an advantage, stopped play and showed him a fully deserved second yellow card. Very well done!!!
      87' - The referee did not fall for BSL GK's show and rightly did not book Cavani for kicking his opponent's head that had no place.


      Overall a good, expected level pf Hațegan's performance. However, the above-mentioned incidents from 70th minute may be judged as crucial mistake or important point for improvement, depending on observer.

      Delete
  28. A possible penalty for City right now...

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    Replies
    1. I wasn't sure really when I saw it live!! No penalty probably an acceptable call there??

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    2. Yes I think this time acceptable decision!

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  29. Missed RC from Turpin, 56'

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    Replies
    1. Hi... Can you please provide a short account of the situation?? 😃

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  30. Missed penalty by Thompson?

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  31. I think there was a handball by Aguero in the lead up to the 3-1 goal (Man City v Barcelona) by Man City... Kassai totally missed it I think!!

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  32. In my opinion correct decision to play on and to allow 3-1 by Manchester City, following a touch by arm by Aguero. It was not deliberate. However, Barcelona players really couldn't accept that. Ter Stegen is still complaining against AAR2.
    I must say this evening Kassai had a very low acceptance by players, he was in trouble to make his decisions accepted. Not a good evening.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Chefren I'm looking at several replays and more I'm looking at it more deliberate it is looking... I think the goal should've been disallowed there... Even if we discount it, Kassai is having a poor evening altogether!!

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  33. New crucial mistake by Kassai. Deliberate handball by Aguero before 3-1. Clear replay showed that and Barca players furious : YC for busquets for dissent.

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    Replies
    1. To be honest, I couldn't spot a deliberate movement by arm. I think play on can be accepted.

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    2. Well it looks pretty deliberate on replays... there is a clear movement of arm coming towards the ball... If I was the assessor I'd have judged it as a crucial mistake!!

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    3. I will rewatch, perhaps I'm wrong. Thanks for your opinion, Soham.

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    4. Can be the other way round as well, Chefren 😃

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    5. Looking at replays it seems ball onto hand... I'd change my car on this situation... I think it's an acceptable call by Kassai😃

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    6. *call

      By the way Chefren you were spot on it seems 😎

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    7. Thanks, at least a supportable decision, it is not important to have a mandatory final assessment, in such situations referees can be backed.

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    8. (given also the difficulty of the call...)

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    9. Yeah really tricky call... My situation is same like you... Even after watching repeated replays I can't make up my mind... When there is do much of doubt backing the referee is a sensible option!!

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    10. I think it was a deliberate handball. I got an impression that Aguero tried to "slow-down" his fall, stiffed his arm and played the ball.

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    11. Question - if this was a handball and you were the observer, would you really consider it a crucial mistake? I found some instructions for referee observers and this seemed no crucial mistake. If Aguero scored the goal than yes, but he played the ball, and his teammate scored after the play. If anyone of you had the instructions I would highly appreciate to have those.
      Thanks.

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  34. Were penalty and RC by De Sousa correct decisions?

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    Replies
    1. I think the decision can be supported.

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    2. I saw it now, yes, supportable call. The player, even though not in a central position, had a clear chance to shot directly on goal from a short distance. Foul by defender directly on the man, so still RC.

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  35. Craig Thomson correctly overrules AR2 to allow Athletico Madrid winner. Excellent decision

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    1. One must praise the teamwork between AAR2 and referee. Flag was raised too early, however it was difficult to detect for AR2 who played the ball. Important decision correctly taken, well done!

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    2. Surely committee member Georgios Bikas will be a happy man in the observer's chair... Good for Thomson 😃

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    3. Absolutely, I must praise Thomson. Luckily he saw that the head was by defender.

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  36. The update on Hațegan's performance can be find above as a replay to the comment regarding the first half. :)

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  37. What should be Kassai's possible score for the Man City v Barca game??

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    Replies
    1. Watching and rewatching the possible deliberate handball by Aguero, I really can't come to a final assessment. For me, however, the clear crucial mistake is the penalty missed. I would say 7.8 (8.1) with many points for improvement this evening!

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    2. Yeah even I would back the referee for that handball call... Nevertheless it should be a medium or low profile game for Kassai in his next appointment!!

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  38. It seems as Turpin whistled a wrong penalty to Dynamo Kyiv. I can't detect any contact attacker / keeper.
    The first penalty, in favor of Benfica, was correct.
    In addition, this incident reported on the blog about a missed RC must be checked.
    In case, it would be 7.4...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Underneath some clips of the Benfica vs. Dynamo Kyiv refereeing highlights. The clip concerning the mentioned missed red card is clip 5.

      1. 11' YC González (DKY)
      https://vimeo.com/189863043

      2. 15' YC Morozyuk (DKY)
      https://vimeo.com/189863045

      3. 44' YC Makarenko (DKY)
      https://vimeo.com/189863046

      4. 45' YC Vida (DKY) and PK Benfica
      https://vimeo.com/189863047

      5. 56' YC Rybalka (DKY)
      https://vimeo.com/189862404

      6. 68' PK Benfica
      https://vimeo.com/189862405

      7. 79' YC Samaris (BEN)
      https://vimeo.com/189862406

      8. 90+4' YC Khacheridi (DKY)
      https://vimeo.com/189862407

      Delete
    2. Thank you.
      First YC is ok, in the second case (15') we are close to RC for SFP, very late and reckless, but I would still accept the YC. The third situation needs a more detailed analysis. This is a revenge foul. Player is aware that he will never reach the ball, the only aim of his action is to hurt the opponent. Even though it doesn't look like a clear violent conduct, that is something similar. A RC would have been appropriate, but I still can understand why Turpin decided for YC, in real pace. These situations can offer different perceptions.
      Holding is clear, excellent decision for the first penalty to Benfica.
      The YC in 56' is more than a crucial mistake. At first, I would like to underline the hesitation by Turpin before stopping the game, perhaps he had noticed that the foul had been quite harsh, but he tried to play a wrong advantage. This is a dark red card and I'm sorry but a significant mistake. We rarely see so dangerous challenges.
      Penalty in favor of Dynamo Kyiv: excellent ONSIDE by AR2, but as I stated yesterday, for me there wasn't a significant contact. True that keeper doesn't touch the ball, but the "foul" is then caused by attacker, who deliberately runs towards keeper's body to get the whistle. But yes, I must say, difficult to spot for Turpin. In these situations you have to whistle penalty or simulation, there isn't a third way.
      79': mandatory YC for stopping a promising counterattack, very bad action by Benfica's player to leave the leg in that position.
      90'+4: YC is ok, clearly no DOGSO, too far away from the goal and near the sideline.
      I didn't watch the game, but what I can say after having watched these videos is that Turpin had to pay more attention in the early minutes, being, if needed, more strict with cards. There were definitely too rough challenges, and the big mistake at 56'...

      Delete
    3. Agree with all referee's decision except no. 5. It was a straight RC for a SFP and the refeeree must have stopped the match.
      In adittion, the referee issued a YC ones he stopped the match for another fault play. This means he allowed the advantage play which he failed to show. His hesitation, described above by Chefren, could be due to communication with the team.

      Delete
    4. His yellow card management could be much better. Especially in the case of the last yellow card, it's irritating to see how long it takes him to go to the spot of the foul, get the yellow card out and show it. And it is clear that players react on it, because they don't know whether or not a yellow card will come. A quicker reaction, and more reaction, would be appropriate IMO.

      Delete
  39. Not only Rocchi, for my taste also Clattenburg with a wrong “handball“ penalty. Really deliberately?

    In total too many crucial mistakes tonight. Handball (Rocchi, Clattenburg) and holding (Rocchi, Hategan) again and again.

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    Replies
    1. Clattenburg penalty was correct IMO...

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    2. Unfortunately I did not see a replay. But I think it was a case of “actually not deliberately, but we all would whistle nevertheless“.

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    3. Even if you don't want to assess the penalty call by Clattenburg as "correct", I think you should say that it is at least a supportable call, because the arm is not in a natural position and the defender takes a risk. I can understand what you mean, the touch was not "deliberate" in the real meaning of the term, but you know today that's not enough to play on. Whistling this penalty is not a mistake. The decision was accepted.
      Rocchi's penalty was in my opinion wrong, in that case never deliberate, the arm was very close to body.

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  40. With the arm close to body also can be penalty.

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  41. My views having (re)watched some matches more intensely than others:

    - Kassai with a poor performance, missed many fouls and cards. Plus a clear crucial mistake, which is however comprehensible. If he was 100% sure that there was no contact, simulation would have been a superb decision. But as there was a contact, bad luck for ManCity and Team Kassai. The 3:1 goal ... difficult. Although the hand was in front of the body, rooted to it, not outstretched which would support NO deliberate handball of course, he nonetheless controlled the ball with his arm/hand. I doubt that the ball would have moved to the centre of the penalty area / in that direction if it had hit the stomach.

    - Turpin - correct 1st penalty, incorrect 2nd penalty. Clear simulation and not too difficult decision. Missing red card for SFP apart from that and poor procedure when cautioning the player. The problem was that he did not anticipatively move to create a better visual angle, but he also had a bit bad luck here. The situation in 15' is a red card for me as well, but I understand why he did not give it and that there are some arguments for YC.

    - De Sousa with a correct and really brave DOGSO / RC decision.

    - Thomson with a very good teamwork situation in the decisive 2:1 goal. AR2 maybe raised his flag too immediately as he actually could not have been entirely sure who touched the ball last. At any rate, well solved in the team.

    - Rocchi: Incredible offside goal, actually AAR2 and Rocchi are partly responsible as well. If Tonolini - for what reasons ever - could not see who made the header on the goal, then they should solve it in teamwork. If however it was a mere perceptual blackout and Tonolini did not know where the goal-scorer was at the moment of the header, then of course it is only his mistake.

    The handball penalty is incorrect and a crucial mistake for me. Small distance, no arm tension, unexpected ball, ball to hand, natural / player typical position vs maybe a bit outstretched, which was, as said, typical of a defending action though.

    - Hategan: for me Serie Die should be sent off with a red card instead of a 2nd YC, but keeping both eyes closed maybe that's acceptable. Have not seen the holding case. Correct disallowed goal.

    - Nijhuis: Worldclass onside by AR2 Schaap in the 2:3.

    - Clattenburg: Correct penalty. Hand too highly raised, tensed / stiff, unnatural position vs tries to put it away. Overall correct IMO.

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  42. Regarding yellow card issued by Turpin in the 56th minute of the game, UEFA often, if not always, deem such tackles as only reckless, because the ball was clearly played at first. So, I wouldn't be so sure about crucial mistake in this case.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There have been claims for much softer fouls (with a comparably high impact, though) to deem them as tackles without body control and SFP.

      If we follow UEFA's dogma to pay higher attention to a challenge's effect on a player (look at the foot of the non-offending player, clear danger for his safety), then it is a clear red card ("...this kind of challenge cannot be tolerated" as Collina formulated it).

      I agree, though, that it is not unprobable that Bianchi supports Turpin. Therefore I pull back the term "crucial mistake" and rather say in terms of video education, I would strongly opt for a red card.

      Delete
    2. Of course, it's a red card to me as well, but I remember at least two RAP examples where really rough stud-up tackles were assessed as only reckless because the ball was played at first.

      Delete
    3. You are right, the only one that comes to my mind where a RC was recommended / at least possible was Jug in PSG-Ajax some seasons ago, even though the hitting point was a different one.

      (Apart from that, I think also UEFA's RAPs are "only" man-made and can err. IMO, UEFA would err if such tackles are only reckless, but that's of course only a personal opinion.)

      Delete
    4. You are right. The last EURO RAP is absurd... I talked to an important person and he said that one referee at EURO admitted his mistake regarding handball, the Committee agreed and in RAP we can read that the referee was right... That EURO RAP contradicts instructions regarding handballs the referees got earlier. Chaos.

      https://streamable.com/vhqo
      Here we can read "the leg is not stretched and the intensity is not high", so the Turpin's situation is something different.

      But here...
      https://streamable.com/vt0k

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    5. Turpin's second penalty was not wrong at all. Why am I the only one seeing obvious contact on the back of the attackers foot? It is right there on the replay. Just watch again. The back heel.

      Delete
  43. What about Kramer's YC in de Sousa's match (88')? Was that SFP?
    Howard Webb said, it was a RC, murmuring something about de Jong ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Uh. Clear red card for me.

      Delete
    2. Clear RC, I agree. The safety of the opponent was endangered.
      There was a similar situation (kick close to head) in Dynamo Kyiv - Guingamp, one year and half ago, referee Martin Strömbergsson. UEFA of course assessed the foul as RC.

      Delete
    3. Video:

      https://streamable.com/bqez

      Delete
    4. And a DOGSO incident. Excellent reading of the situation!

      https://streamable.com/2hfg

      Delete
    5. In my opinion acceptable YC, RC would be too harsh, as the body movement was under control, the leg was not stretched, no clear studs up, no intensity.

      Delete
    6. Interesting in that situation: Everybody stayed calm, no protests, no severe injury... in game reality, an accepted decision. Technically, I disagree, Shearer... there was nothing under control, the studs clearly hit the shoulder/facial area.

      Delete
    7. I accept your opinion, I really appreciate it. Maybe I was under impression of no reaction from players. But it still seems under control and no intensity to me.

      Delete
    8. And yes, excellent DOGSO.

      Delete
  44. Basel - PSG (Hațegan)

    1) https://streamable.com/prqf

    2) https://streamable.com/91n2

    3) https://streamable.com/konp

    4) https://streamable.com/q1kc

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1) YC (at least) for keeper is missing there. Clear reaction, close to violent conduct, as you said, but mandatory YC.
      2) No penalty because the foul had already occurred before the corner kick, but surely missing prevention by referee. I would have stopped the play, warned the players and then allowed the execution of the corner again.
      3) Correct decision to play on: not enough for a penalty.
      4) Second YC absolutely spot on...

      Delete
    2. On 4): Good that he was alert and saw it at all, but for me it is actually serious foul play. Although the hitting point is rather low, the foot fully hits the ankle. Excessive force and clearly endangering the safety of the opponent.

      Delete
    3. On 2): There was also a pulling prior to corner kick.

      https://snag.gy/FgLo8w.jpg

      Delete
    4. Oh, yes. I missed it. No impact on the opponent and definitely not enough for a penalty, but also in this case Hategan could have managed the situation better. However, we can't exclude, looking at his head, that he totally missed the incident. AAR2 was not in the condition to help him, as well. So, I would suggest as point for improvement a more efficient visual control of penalty area, and more prevention to avoid such incidents, by using warnings and so on. But no crucial mistakes and I must say it seems the Romanian had overall a quite good performance.

      Delete
    5. 1) Both, the player and the goalkeeper deserved YC for unsporting behavior.
      2) No PC, but the referee must have had issued a warning to players. I really hope he realized the pulling took place before the corner kick was taken and did not wave it away. Recommendation - to improve player management
      3) No PC
      4) Second YC acceptable, but should have been straight RC in case the offender did not have a YC already.

      Delete
  45. Maybe a bit of 'a day after the fair', but here are some clips of the above discussed situations (and some undiscussed). Let's say, for the few who weren't able to watch the scenes yet.

    Kassai:
    1. 11' YC Sterling (MCI)
    https://vimeo.com/189966924

    2. 74' Handball before 3-1 MCI
    https://vimeo.com/189966927

    Thomson
    3. 90+3' Goal ATL
    https://vimeo.com/189966918

    Rocchi
    1. 14' Offside goal PSV
    https://vimeo.com/189966928

    2. 29' Penalty claim BMU by Lewandowski
    https://vimeo.com/189966929

    3. 33' PK BMU - handball Guardado
    https://vimeo.com/189966930

    4. 90' YC Coman (BMU) - time wasting
    https://vimeo.com/189966931

    Nijhuis
    1. 66' YC Xhaka (ARS) - Late tackle
    https://vimeo.com/189966920

    2. 87' No offside decision before goal ARS
    https://vimeo.com/189966923

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you so much.
      My comments on the situations I had not still watched:

      Penalty claim BMU by Lewandowski. I think this can be still "not enough" for a whistle, but I'm not sure whether Rocchi saw it.

      90' YC Coman (BMU) - time wasting This is a correct decision even if Coman is not the effective corner's taker. Indeed, by his behavior, he wastes time. Excellent by Rocchi.

      66' YC Xhaka (ARS) - Late tackle Very close to RC. Considering only the hitting point, this would be a SFP. But perhaps the fact that the force was not excessive and the player was not totally hit, is in favor of YC. However, at any rate, I wouldn't assess a straight RC as mistake and I would prefer it!

      87' No offside decision before goal ARS Top class NO FLAG, at first glance it looked like a clear offside.

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